Jeanine Bailey: Hello, listeners, welcome to the next episode of the Empower World Coaching and Leadership Podcast, and I am very happy to be here with Marie, Marie Quigley, my co-presenter and host of this podcast. Marie, it's lovely to see you. It's been a little while since we last met.

Marie Quigley: It has, Jeanine. I've been doing a little bit of traveling around the world, and now we're back in the same place, in the same time zone. So, great to be back online together again.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes, and your adventures looked amazing.

Marie Quigley: They were. They were fascinating, and exhausting, and time-consuming, but I made the most of them. I feel very grateful that I've been able to do that.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes, it feels like we've swapped years. The year before, I was constantly traveling, and now it's your turn. It's like a team-see what unfolds over the next year.

Marie Quigley: Lucky.

Jeanine Bailey: Marie, we've decided on a topic today, so I'm going to hand over to you to share what we're going to double-click on in relation to the coaching practice, profession, how we work as coaches.

Marie Quigley: This thought about what we could talk about today came out of a mentoring session with an experienced coach. Actually, it's happened not just once or twice, but a number of times as I'm listening to recordings-that the coach comes in, asks the question, "So what do we want to talk about today?" And the client, perhaps particularly when they're a new client, goes into a long story of what they're thinking, what the process they're exploring. Maybe they're wandering around for 20 minutes, which is absolutely fine if that's clear to the client. And the coach may say, "So, you know, what is the goal for you today?" And the client says, "I've no idea. I don't know where we're going, I don't know what we're doing."

So, the experience I've had recently is I've asked the coach, "So what's going on for you here as the coach when you've let the client speak for this amount of time, and yet you can see there is confusion in the client's space?" And the coach's response is, "Well, I've contracted for what coaching is. This is their second or third session, so they do know what coaching is." And my empathy goes out to the client, because I can see them getting lost-their body language is unsure, they're a bit nervous. Even though they may have heard you say what coaching is, they still don't know, because one or two sessions in, it's very new to anybody, especially as an adult learning something new. We get a bit scared, don't we, when we're put in a position where we are learning, growing, but actually not quite sure about what our role is. So I thought it would be useful for us to discuss this together. What are some of the ways we can support clients to understand what coaching is, and to perhaps understand the process of how a coaching session works? What do we need to do as coaches to help the client feel safe and brave?

Jeanine Bailey: Yes, thank you for bringing in this topic, Marie. It takes me back to the first time that I was coached, when I didn't know what coaching was, and I was making assumptions about what coaching was. And even though I was in it, I still didn't know what it was. Because I was trusting my coach, and I was in my own experience, not looking at it from an outside perspective in terms of, "Oh, this is what coaching is." So you're right-a new client or coaching partner won't, even though they're told what coaching is, fully understand it. It's one thing to potentially know it from a headspace, but it's another thing to actually experience it, and be in it, and really understand what it is. Because, as we always say, coaching is like no other conversation-when we really coach professionally and masterfully, it is like no other conversation. And potentially, we're not so much in our head as a client when we're being coached; we are going on a journey. And that journey needs to be supported-that's the coach's role, to support that conversation, to be able to hold the structure of what the client brings in, what they want to achieve in the session. And so the coach's role is to be able to support them to achieve what is desired, taking responsibility for that, while the client takes responsibility for their experience, learning, etc.

Marie Quigley: That's right. I often say to newer coaches, our job is to take charge of the coaching process, not take charge of the thinking. So if we can take charge of the coaching process and help the client, with permission of course, to come back and move out and expand and come back in-to help them understand the process of coaching-then that's our job. Their job is to go wherever they want in their thinking, but ours is-I almost want to say "guardrails." And there's a part of me that's thinking about masterful coaching, so MCC coaching-you will see it just evolve and spring up and out, and it can almost look quite magical the way masterful coaches work. However, they are still holding a process to support the client to understand what they want to focus on. If they're wandering off here or there, the coach will offer what they notice about their wanderings, and say, "Where would you like to go?" So there is some support in helping the client funnel down to the core thing that matters most. And a client doesn't know that. So in many ways, we have to train the client to know how we work as coaches, and how each of us work will be slightly different.

My heart was going out to the client in the video I watched, because they are very experienced and senior in their role, and yet you could see how nervous they were about the whole process. They were unsure about where to go, but their kind of ego wouldn't let them say, "Look, can we stop here? I just don't know what to do, or what you're doing." So I think we've got to pay attention, we've got to look, we've got to observe, and we've also got to help the client understand the way we work.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes, absolutely. It really is our role as coaches to hold that framework very lightly-the coaching framework for a conversation-being led by the coaching partner, being led by what they bring in. And, as you say, really look out and pay attention to those clues that our client might be adrift, may be lost, maybe nervous, anxious, or perhaps they're in a great state of joy, who knows? But as the coach, it's reflecting back what you're noticing, checking in from time to time: "Are we on track with what you want to experience, discover, inquire about in our conversation?" So that is our role-to really hold that framework, understand what the client is looking for, and it might change as the conversation evolves, and that's okay too. So again, as a coach, we want to check in: "Has something shifted here? Is what you're wanting to inquire about changed?" when we notice those perhaps changes. And really supporting them when we recognise that they are adrift, lost, and check in with them. Where are they right now? And if they are at a loss, well, also, it's part of the contracting too, isn't it? To be able to be vulnerable. I always ask in my contracting with my clients, "Can you let me know if you find that you are lost, or something doesn't make sense, or if it's not working for you? Would it be okay to reflect that back to me so that we can come back to where we need to be?" Because I don't want to assume that I'm going to pick up everything. I might miss clues that perhaps our client is somewhere that isn't supporting them.

Marie Quigley: That makes sense. And I'm also thinking, even though we may contract for it, the client may forget all of that when they're in their stuff, and may not do what they've agreed to do. So it is our-we've got so many things going on as coaches that we're paying attention to. It is also our job to notice: "Are you okay here? Does this make sense? Are you going in the direction you want to? Or do we need to come back somewhere? Or do we need to just check where we are in order to see where we're going?"

It reminds me of how I describe the client as the explorer, and the coach is kind of like the Sherpa. So the explorer is on their own journey, but the Sherpa can help if a snowstorm comes, because they've travelled the mountain before. As an experienced coach, they can say, "Oh, look, there's a snowstorm here. Let's check the best, you know, where we should go now in this snowstorm in order for you to get through it in a way that feels right for you." But the Sherpa knows the root of the process, so they can help them understand that with clarity, with questions, with feedback, rather than both of you standing in the snowstorm and thinking, "Oh, well, I'll wait until the client-the explorer-is ready to move through," but really, they might be scared in that snowstorm. So there are lots of things we are taught, trained in, with processes to help the client get through that.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes, it really is, as coaches, listening to our intuition, picking up those energetic changes, the emotions, the somatics, and paying attention to that, and revealing that as a check-in with our coaching partner as to whether we are on track, or reflecting back, "I've noticed I'm sensing a change here," or whatever it is that we're noticing, and checking in with our partner.

Your story reminds me of a program I saw the other day about wine growers. It was a beautiful, sunny day, but all of a sudden, these two wine growers went, "Did you feel that? There's a frost coming, and we've got to take care of the vines." Now, that would potentially be something that no one else would notice, but because they are the experts and they've experienced that in the past, it's something that they pay attention to, even though it would have been the minutest of sensations. So that's what we can do as coaches-just paying attention to our intuition, what's coming in that can support our client to also lean into their vulnerability, what's coming up for them, again connecting with the ways of working, creating that safe space to be able to check in. And if we can ask our client, even if our intuition isn't kicking in in terms of something's changed here, but still in the process of coaching, at some point just checking in with the client, "Are we on track with what it is that you want to explore today?"

Marie Quigley: And I think if you come out of a session, and you're frustrated with a client, and you think, "Oh, gosh, that is hard work. Why aren't they getting it? I've explained what coaching is," then look at yourself. Look at how you're handling. How compassionate are you? What is your coaching, your contracting process like? Because the way you communicate-it's the receiver of your communication that tells you whether your communication is useful or not. So if you have those frustrations, take it to supervision as you would, but come back to yourself. Who are you being in this work that perhaps you're not supporting the client to understand how you work as a coach? That could be the key to unlocking braver conversations.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes, really powerful, Marie. It's-and we always say that our experiences are a reflection of what's going on within ourselves. So if we take that on board, take 100% responsibility for what our clients are experiencing, even though we might not be 100% responsible, if we take that on board, then we can really start to look at self, as you say, really identify: How am I contributing to this? What have I done, not done, that contributes to this outcome? What could I do differently that supports them and me in my coaching practice?

Marie Quigley: Really important. And of course, as we're going through the processes, a lot of us are getting credentialed-ACC, PCC, MCC, EMCC, AC, other credentials that happen. That doesn't mean that that award lasts every session. You are not coaching at those levels at every session. So it's also checking, how is my work going? What work do I need to do to develop myself in order to be braver, more courageous, more compassionate, whatever it is in my work. So I recommend recording your sessions, particularly with those that you find challenging, and have a look at who you are being, rather than what you are doing, or what the client is doing. That can be really useful learning.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes, and as you shared earlier, taking these types of cases, or any case, to supervision. I'm reflecting back on recent supervision sessions, but even way back-some people bring in things that they think, "Oh, not sure if this should be quick. I don't think this is really a big thing," but boy, what comes from exploring those things that might seem surface level, minor, really does bring up such powerful insights when we're ready to explore. So again, we would highly recommend supporting yourself through reflective practice, and supervision is one of those ways to really improve your practice, and really get to know yourself in a much deeper way, in support of you and your clients.

Marie Quigley: Super. So let's close off our time together today, Jeanine. We encourage you all to record your work, get curious about your clients, support them to understand your process, but also, it comes back to you. Look at yourself. Who are you being? If those frustrations are coming out, turn them to yourself. How can you be more effective in your work and your communication with your clients?

Jeanine Bailey: And I would suggest that that goes for anything in our life, not just coaching, in terms of your experiences, what's working, what's not working-bring it back to you. And that helps you be in charge of your life, your experiences. So thank you, Marie, for bringing in this experience, and I trust many coaches will get value from this. If you got value from this, if you'd like to share this with others, we would really appreciate it, and we'd love to hear your feedback. So thank you for tuning in.