Jeanine Bailey: Hello and welcome to the next episode of the Empower World Coaching and Leadership Podcast. I am delighted to be here. I'm in the UK, but I'm delighted to be here with my very special guest, Inga Bielinska, who's in the States right now. So, we are at the very opposite ends of our days. Mine very early morning, yours very late at night, Inga. So, I really appreciate you being here, making that time to come onto our podcast as our special guest. I'm so delighted Inga is here because we've known each other for quite a number of years now through various different ways and means, and I've really enjoyed our connection. I really hear the value that you bring, Inga, in coaching, in leadership. So, I'm delighted that you are our special guest today. And so, I'd like to hand over to you to introduce yourself to our listeners. Thanks, Inga.

Inga Bielinska: Thank you. Thank you for these kind words. Yeah, it is kind of funny how we know each other, met a few times virtually, but we have never met face to face. Yeah, maybe it will be possible, like in reality in one space, yeah. But that's wonderful about the current world that we can connect with others and have meaningful relationships, even if sometimes it's difficult to be in the same space. So I'm in California right now in Bay Area, and most of the time I work with clients in tech environments, either like tech like software or engineers in manufacturing company. Actually, I love working with engineers. There is something about this mindset, which I appreciate, even though I'm not engineering myself, yeah. And I work with this in this industry in different capacities quite a lot as a team coach. So I support leaders and the teams as well as an executive coach. So I think that I grew together with my clients and I generally, when I started working as a coach, they were first-time managers and now they are in the CIO or CTO role. So this is my typical client nowadays.

Apart from that, I am, and that's the space we met actually, Jeanine, it's the space of supervision. I love coaching supervision. And I use it to support other coaches, not only in San Francisco Bay Area chapter where I work as a group supervisor, but as well ICF Washington chapter and ICF Polish chapter. So I try to spread the supervision as much as possible, but I as well help leaders who use coaching skills with coaching supervision. So I use the methodology, the tool, the modality as well with leaders, even though they don't consider themselves coaches, they are leaders who use coaching as one of the leadership tools. And apart from that, I'm a psych dramatist and I love psychodrama and I love to use it in all the different modalities I do. It is connected with my first degree. I actually studied theatre a long time ago.

Jeanine Bailey: Fantastic. Thank you for sharing your background, Inga, because you're the perfect guest, really, being a coach, but also supporting and working with leaders, which coaches do. And it's really great to hear how you use your skills of supervision to support leaders who utilise coaching skills. And that's connected to the topic that we're going to bring in today really beautifully. But I just really want to acknowledge the work that you do and the value that you bring to the coaching profession in all those different roles that you really sit in and utilize and support, again, coaches, but also leaders. So thank you for all the work that you do, because I know you're a fantastic LinkedIn poster and you share so much value. It's quite incredible. So thank you for being our special guest.

Inga Bielinska: Thank you. However, I believe in giving back so much to the community as well of coaches, because I was very fortunate when I studied coaching—it was 2009—I actually met excellent coaches who were also very generous with their time and learning and space. And I’m still very close to them. And I believe that this is what we need to do. And the more we grow as coaches, we need to support our community of coaches too. So I think this is like a mission—or yes, I can call it a mission. I would like to give back as much as possible.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes, really appreciate that. And this is what this podcast is about—really supporting the profession of coaching and, yes, giving back to that profession in support of the people that we want to be able to partner with. We were connecting recently about the latest changes to the code of ethics by the ICF. Recently, they brought out a new set of code of ethics, and there were some things in there that caught your attention, and we connected about that. So, I'm going to hand over to you to share your thoughts about what it is that we can do as coaches to look after ourselves. Over to you, Inga.

Inga Bielinska: So first I would love to appreciate the work of all these people who got involved in updating the code of ethics. I believe that this is really difficult work to create something that needs to help coaches all over the world in different cultures, in different places, in different specialties as well, because we've got business coaches and we've got life coaches as well, and we've got team coaches. And this code of ethics is an umbrella for all of these different groups with different, as I said, cultural differences. So first of all, thank you for this work. It's very impressive.

There are elements which I really love about this code of ethics. However, what I was teeny tiny disappointed about is the lack of the words “well-being” and “self-care.” Even though it is implied here and there that this is our professionalism—that we actually seek support when it's necessary—we need to understand our limitations and we need to look for support. I actually miss the words “self-care” and “well-being,” because I feel that when I look at myself, I think that I am my biggest resource. The attention and the light needs to be a little bit on me as my biggest resource—not that I'm full of myself.

By the way, there is a comment as well in this new code of ethics, which I know triggered a few people, that we as coaches shouldn’t be showing any superiority. It was kind of vague a little bit. I can quote it more specifically later because I’ve got the document open as well. But in this term that if I’m my instrument, I really need to show love and care to myself as well, if I really want to do this job.

So I was missing this opportunity to express that a little bit. It’s not only that, “Okay, know that you can make a mistake as a coach and seek support or help or professional,” and professionals mentioned there are mentor coaches, coach supervisors, and trainers and teachers. This is all great. However, the language is a little bit different. The language is of obligation towards our clients. I feel that it could be stated as: this is obligation to ourselves as well.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes, thank you for sharing your experiences. And that’s a powerful experience as you’ve shared your own personal experience. And it’s wonderful to hear how you’ve come through that.

Inga Bielinska: And I shared with you that I have actually a personal story about that. It’s very easy to get into the loop of “I love this job, I see the value it brings, and I have so much responsibility towards my clients” that I can disconnect from myself. It happened to me in 2022. I was really sick at the time, and I didn’t know what it was. On the day when I was having—because of COVID, it was an online consultation—with some professor from Stanford Cancer Centre, they used the word “sarcoma.” Sarcoma is like the worst kind of cancer you can get.

And I was so disconnected from myself. Do you know what I did after this conversation? I felt that I had to have a session with a client. That it was my obligation because this person had such a problem. It was such a disconnection. The story is—it wasn’t sarcoma, it was something completely different. It ended very well for me. I had beautiful care—thank you to Stanford Cancer Centre and their great doctors there. But that was a lesson, that was a wake-up call for me that, okay, Inga, yeah, you definitely have a lot of professionalism towards your clients, but what about yourself?

And that was also the time when I had already graduated from supervision training. I was working with Lily Settle as my supervisor then. And I brought this forward with her—that there's something really off. I have a lot of responsibility. I think I have high work ethics towards people I support, or I coach and the teams I coach. But there was this lack of responsibility towards myself. It was a really strange moment to realize that.

And I remember investigating things like compassion fatigue or some aspects, because it wasn’t burnout—I think it was just disconnection at the time. And then I really understood what supervision can support coaches with—really getting connected with themselves. Because if we are not connected with ourselves, I don’t feel that we do the job to the level we could do. You know, it’s almost like this oxygen mask—put the oxygen mask on yourself before.

So yeah, that was the moment when I started to communicate more about well-being, self-care, support. That’s why I’m actually practicing mostly group supervision. I think I finished the fourth cohort with ICF Bay Area chapter yesterday, and we had a closing session. Everybody there shared that it’s so great to be with others—other coaches—and understand that despite the level of our experience in coaching, we have similar challenges, and how important it is to understand that my questions or my doubts are valid, and I can seek help. I can support myself somehow.

So yeah, that was the origin of my belief that without self-care and taking care of me as a coach, I cannot really provide—I cannot really be a professional. That’s why I think it’s a little bit of a missed opportunity, the language that was used in the code of ethics. It’s very client oriented. It’s not “us”-oriented as much.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes. Thank you for sharing your experiences. And that’s a powerful experience, as you’ve shared your own personal experience. And it’s wonderful to hear how you’ve come through that. And of course, we always know as coaches, don’t we, that through those challenges, there’s always great learning.

And we can also appreciate that in the ICF core competencies, there’s Core Competency 2, which asks us to look after ourselves. And through supervision—although it’s not mandatory via the ICF—it is by other codes like the EMCC.

Inga Bielinska: In the code of ethics, actually, the word “supervision” or “supervisor” is used four times.

Jeanine Bailey: Well, that’s good.

Inga Bielinska: Yeah. So, I think this is a huge progress. And I, as I said, have a lot of appreciation for the work which was done. I just think it could be a little bit—the language could be a little bit more toward us, not only clients. Even the code of ethics is toward the client. I think the purpose of this document is to help us understand how we show up in the relationship with our clients.

Jeanine Bailey: Yeah, so the ICF recognises it, but what perhaps is the missed opportunity is to bring that into the code of ethics. So perhaps there’s a little bit of a blind spot there. And, you know, by raising awareness—which is what we do as coaches—potentially that might be in the next iteration.

Inga Bielinska: But also, I think that maybe we need to talk about it when we interpret this Code of Ethics. There is a series of videos—I haven’t seen all of them, I’m in the process of watching them. I feel that this is a very important document. I always try to, especially in group supervision, make sure that we bring the Code of Ethics—both EMCC and ICF—because I usually have mixed groups. People are either associated with both or with one of these institutions.

And it's really helpful when coaches actually understand the Code of Ethics and are not worried about it. Like, “Oh my God, is it right or wrong?” No—it’s just about curiosity regarding what you do. So I hope that maybe in these videos that interpret the document, the language used there is softer toward coaches.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes. And as you highlight, it is so important to put on our oxygen mask. And a lot of coaches run their own practice. Of course, there are internal coaches. There are, of course, leaders who coach—who take on a lot of responsibility.

Inga Bielinska: Oh, it's great that you bring in this topic, because I actually use coaching supervision with leaders who use coaching as a tool. And because of the power dynamic and the different kind of role they have—because they are leaders—there is even more pressure that they feel. Or they communicate this pressure in terms of, “Coaching is partnering—how can I truly partner?” Or, “I coach this person, I ask them questions, but in the back of my head, I know there might be only one way to do it, because that’s aligned with our strategy.”

So I feel a little bit like a phony sometimes—that I coach around something which is more like an obligation, “You have to do it this way,” somehow. So there’s a lot of pressure on them, and I feel that coaching supervision needs to go into organisations nowadays. Because coaching is used as a leadership tool.

I know that Damian Goldvarg—we both know him—just published a book about coaching for leaders, right? So it’s a very common area that leaders use nowadays. So they need this kind of support that we get—especially supervision. I think less mentoring, because they don’t have to meet all the coaching competencies, but supervision is a very useful tool for them.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes. And it is a really powerful way to support both professional coaches and leaders—to put on their oxygen mask, as you say, Inga. And so, yes, there’s potentially a lot of responsibility. A lot of coaches who actually have their own practice—they’re wearing lots of hats. Leaders are wearing lots of hats. So taking on this responsibility...

And it can be wonderful work, but it can also be lonely at the top, as they say. And potentially there’s a running type—I can speak for myself—there’s a “go, go, go,” and forgetting to put on our oxygen mask.

We’re like the plumber who doesn’t look after their own house.

Inga Bielinska: We've got a saying in Polish that “the shoemaker often walks barefoot.” So it’s something like that.

However, you know what is interesting when I think about it? A lot of topics—especially in group supervision—are connected with the sense of value and the fact that I’m an entrepreneur, a solo entrepreneur usually, and selling to clients. I don’t know anybody who started coaching thinking, “I love sales. I’m a born entrepreneur, so I’ll go into coaching.”

Usually the path is different. People do all these trainings, they learn, they do coaching properly at work, and they have the idea, “Oh, I want to leave the corporate world and start my own business because that’s what I love.” And then they learn that there are a lot of different aspects of this work—that it’s not coaching per se. You have to sell, you have to negotiate, you have to network—a lot. You also have to be pretty versed in digital marketing.

You mentioned LinkedIn at the beginning, and this is the part that sometimes affects the sense of value so much that it impacts the way coaches coach. It’s actually quite interesting that this aspect is so impactful. Even money negotiations—like when a client is not paying on time or negotiates a really low fee for coaching or whatever else—and coaches take the blame: “Oh, I wasn’t good enough at negotiating.” And now, because I’m afraid that this person might disappear without paying me, I’m not challenging them enough, and I try to create a nice environment.

So there are a lot of connections—not only about how we coach, but also how we run our businesses—that can affect our well-being and our sense of competence as well.

Inga Bielinska: And this is sometimes the saddest thing I see when I work more as a mentor—because I can listen to sessions. I prepare people for PCC or MCC exams. And it happens, for example, in the PCC pathway: they have a desire to leave the corporate environment, and they do beautiful coaching, but they really struggle with the business aspect of the work. The skill sets—because of a lack of self-confidence that stems from the inability to make money in this field—affect the way they coach. And this is really sad sometimes.

So yeah. We don’t like to talk about money. It would be great if every company hired internal coaches. That would be really wonderful. It would give us some safety and stability. But it’s a very rare story. Most coaches are external coaches.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes. No, you’ve brought in some really, really good points, Inga. And there’s just so much that goes on behind the scenes of coaching.

And I’m thinking of a number of corporate pieces of work that we’ve been invited to participate in. There’s a whole lot of work that goes into putting together proposals, having meetings, etc. And then all of a sudden, the corporate client will come back and say, “Oh, there’s been a change of plan. We’re not doing this work now.” And we’ve had that a few times this year.

Inga Bielinska: That’s what I wanted to say. This year is such a weird year. I have never experienced anything like that. I remember 2008—that was pretty challenging. I had a different business at the time. It was pretty challenging. But this year—oh my God—it started in some kind of weird way. So yeah, and sometimes we don’t take that into consideration.

You know, funny thing—we talked about leaders who coach. I see this happening in a few of them who I’ve known for a longer time. They invested in coaching skills, they fell in love with it, and they start saying things like, “Oh, you know, I would love to do it like you—you just coach. That would be great.” But they’ve never had any kind of business owner experience. Always corporate environment.

And I’m like, “Yeah... let’s talk about it.” There are some elements they need to consider as well. It’s more like—not coaching or supervision—but just a conversation between me, a more experienced business owner, and a person who just wants to use my brain a little. “Okay, these are the aspects. Have you thought about this?” And they’re like, “Oh, okay.” These aspects might impact you.

So yes—definitely, everything is doable. But it’s good to consider it, because I’ve seen sometimes that love for coaching disappearing because of the circumstances, unfortunately.

Which is a pity, because I still believe that there are too few of us, to be honest.

Jeanine Bailey: Yes, yes. And, you know, what you’re sharing—it can happen to the best of coaches. And so, it really does highlight the importance of that self-care, nurturing self, and supporting the mindset to really be able to have faith and courage in doing this work. Work that is brave and is also so important to be able to support the leaders of today, tomorrow, etc.

And we haven’t really touched on what supervision is—for those who perhaps aren’t aware of what supervision is. And we’re both supervisors—which, as you shared, is how we’ve come to know each other through the wonderful Damian Goldvarg.

So, Inga, very briefly, what would you say to our listeners who perhaps haven’t experienced supervision? How would you describe that?

Inga Bielinska: So, I will use the language I actually use when I talk to leaders. I always say that supervision is the space of reflection—where you can stop and pause and think about who you are as a coach, and how you coach, and talk about all the doubts or challenges and successes you experience there.

There are three elements which I usually consider in supervision. First, there is the restorative space. Through reflection, you restore, recharge, regain your self-confidence as a coach—that’s a very important part of it.

Then there is the formative part. That’s the “how-to’s”—how to solve a challenge or problem of a client, how to show up, etc. I’ve noticed that there are more “how-to’s” in team coaching supervision than in regular coaching supervision because there’s thinking around “how to help this team,” “how to do something with this team.”

And there is the normative part—hence, the Code of Ethics. Like, “What is ethical maturity in our work?” Especially when there’s a lot of power dynamics happening—when you work with or in an organisation.

But the space can take different forms, and we don’t know where the conversation will go. Eventually, it’s in service of you as a coach—but also in service of all your current and future clients.

So that’s how I see it—a space of reflection, with aspects of learning, and discussion about what’s ethical, what’s in the grey areas, and how to navigate those challenges.

Jeanine Bailey: Beautifully articulated, Inga. It is that wonderful space where we support our coaches, our leaders, to feel safe—to be able to share whatever is challenging for them, or to look at those opportunities as well to develop themselves in terms of who they are being as a coach, or as a leader who coaches.

So, as you say, it’s a very restorative space, but also a place to develop who we are being. So, really appreciate what you’ve shared.

So, Inga, as we wrap up our topic today—which again, thank you so much for bringing in—what is the one thing that you would like to share with our listeners to be mindful of, or to reflect upon, as we finish up today?

Inga Bielinska: Maybe the simplest thing, actually.

What have you done today to take care of yourself?

That’s one of the simplest questions we can ask ourselves. Is it, I don’t know... enough sleep? A good cup of coffee? (I’m a coffee lover, I would say!) Or is it a walk? Or time with your nearest and dearest? I don’t know—maybe time with a great book?

Whatever it is—something that is actually your own way of recharging your batteries. Because if you use coaching at work on a regular basis, you need to take care of your energy levels as well. And this is one of the signs of being a professional: breaks.

So yes—what have you done today to take care of yourself? That would be my reflective question.

However, I’ve got one message for leaders who might be listening.

Dear leaders, if you use coaching or you study coaching and you’ve started asking some coaching questions at work, I will really encourage you—find a local chapter of the ICF, because a lot of chapters all over the world have some offerings for group supervision.

Please don’t think, “I’m not a coach; I’m just a leader who uses coaching, so it’s not for me.”
No—go to the space. Share. Talk to people. Share your challenge, if you have a case about using your coaching skills at work with your employees or your peers—because that’s possible as well.

This kind of reflection can really help you become more effective—both as a leader and as a coach. So just do it. Check the local chapters of ICF. I’m pretty sure you’ll find something. And if you fall in love with it, you might find a group that you want to stay with for a longer time.

The model might be “drop-in,” or it might be a longer-term commitment. So that’s my small message:
If you’re a leader—do it.

Jeanine Bailey: A great message. Thank you. Thank you, Inga.

Again, a huge thanks for being a guest on our podcast. Marie’s not with me today, but I know she’ll be very grateful for your generosity of time and for sharing your wisdom. So again, thank you, Inga. Keep doing what you’re doing. Really appreciate you.

Inga Bielinska: Thank you. Thank you, Jeanine, for your invitation. And I can see that there are some lights showing up on your walls—so the day is waking up!

So enjoy the day. Thank you for inviting me.

Jeanine Bailey: And have a lovely sleep. A nice, long, restful sleep. Isn’t it amazing—this connection over the globe? Your day is waking up, my day is long gone. This is the beauty of the space we’re in. This is the part I actually enjoy—that I can connect with people all over the world whenever I want.

Inga Bielinska: Very, very fortunate to do that. Thank you, Jeanine.

Jeanine Bailey: Sleep well.