Jeanine Bailey: Hello and welcome to empower world's coaching and leadership. Podcast and today I am here with the wonderful Katie Mapondera, who is a magnificent Empower World Associate, and I'm so delighted to see you here, Katie, thank you for joining me.

Katie Mapondera: I'm really happy to be here, Jeanine. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity.

Jeanine Bailey: You're very welcome. And yes, Katie is a big, big part of empower world, and we this week we kicked off a new networking series based on the podcast and so Katie instigated this networking series based in Doha. The Empower World coaching and leadership networking series. And it is all about supporting leaders and leaders who coach. So we were delighted to be able to make this happen in Doha this week. This particular networking series this month was based on Podcast episode 223 “Effective Leadership with A Coaching Mindset”. So, I wish I was there, Katie. I was back here in the Uk while you were in Doha meeting with wonderful people coaches, leaders in Doha. And I loved how you brought in a real-life case study to support participants, to have an experience of working together, collaborating, using the skills of coaching to support a leader with a real-life leadership challenge. And I'm trusting that it was a very effective, amazing event.

And based on that, We've been chatting this morning about leadership and coaching. And, Katie, you were sharing with me what was a key thing that came out for you, and I was sharing with you what came out as a key thing, particularly for one of my executive coaching clients this week. And the key theme was really active and deep listening. So that's so, that's what we want to focus on today in this podcast how deep actively listening beyond the words is such a superpower for us as coaches for us in service, of our clients and for leaders with their teams, no matter whether they've been trained in coaching or not. Listening is such a key key skill. So, I know I've done enough talking, Katie, over to you. What what's coming up as I introduce this topic that we want to focus on today.

Katie Mapondera: Leadership. It is one of those sorts of core baseline skills for emotional intelligence. An emotional intelligence as a leader. So I sort of had this reel of memories playing through my mind not only from my own experience as a as a leader, and at 1 point a leader who didn't listen very well. And then became aware of the impact of emotional intelligence and specifically, coaching as a leadership tool and approach and then, more specifically listening and the role of listening and coaching and then as well, specifically, memories from our recent networking event where listening was a theme that emerged there as well as we were as we were going through the the session. So yeah, I mean, I just. I'm so glad that we're talking about this because I know for myself. I underestimated the value of listening. You and I were just talking about how in my early thirties, my late twenties, I was really searching for purpose and searching for meaning, and as I was working through Stephen Covey's book The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, what emerged for me was that my purpose was to listen. I admit I was disappointed when I came to that awareness because I thought that listening was something sort of silent and small and insignificant. And so, to learn when I came to Empower World's coach training many years ago that listening is a core part of coaching—that completely transformed my perspective on what I had to offer as someone who loved to listen.

Yeah, no, I think it's really, really valuable and important that we're bringing this forward, because my invitation to those who are listening to today's podcast is to take a look at how you are listening—in the various spheres of your life. As a professional, perhaps, as a friend, perhaps, as a colleague, you know. Are you really tuned in? Are you really receiving?

And the type of listening that we do as coaches is very different than how we think of listening. And I don't know, Jeanine, if you would maybe want to shed a little bit of light on that and maybe talk a little bit about the kind of listening we do as coaches.

Jeanine Bailey: Well, before we get into that, if I can just add that I remember my story was a little bit different from yours. In terms of—you shared with me earlier today that yes, when you heard that listening was part of your purpose, you wondered how could that be so? You know, that sounds a little bit... I'm using my words here. Boring or not. So significant. That's what I'm making up based on what you were sharing earlier. But...

Katie Mapondera: Absolutely.

Jeanine Bailey: Yeah, when you came to the training you heard what Marie said and what we do say at Empower World is that listening is such an important foundation for these powerful skills of coaching to support the transformation of others, that it really is a beautiful gift that we give to someone when we really, truly listen to a person deeply beyond just the words, where we're listening out for the meaning of what people are sharing—not for ourselves, but in support of them, to understand what's really going on. So we'll dive into that a little bit in, well, not too far away.

But I remember before I became a coach, when my coach friend, who was in training as a coach, asked me to be her guinea pig to practice the skills of coaching, which I absolutely loved. The experience—because I was all for learning. I was all for understanding how I could grow myself. So I said yes when she asked me to be her guinea pig—I'm saying that in inverted commas. But she got so busy in the end that she couldn't continue the coaching with me. She had to focus on her traditional work. But she said to me, "Jeanine, as your coach, I am not here to give you advice. But as your friend, I believe you would make a great coach."

And I thought, really? At that stage I thought I had to be an expert in people’s lives and life in general. I thought it was about mentoring, and I'm not sure whether my friend was doing that for me or not. I can't remember now, because it was so long ago. As a new coach, I'm not sure if she crossed the line or not. But whatever it was, I loved the process, and I know that I was deeply listened to by her.

So at that stage I began to question, is coaching for me? And when I started to understand the skills of coaching, and one of those being deep listening, I started to really reflect on my life, and I realized: I know that people come to me all the time with their challenges, with their stuff. I know that I am that listening ear that people come to and trust. I know that I can create that space that allows people to feel safe and not judged. And I can provide maybe some thoughts and ideas from time to time. So I knew that this listening at that stage was a key skill that I had because I had this constant evidence of people coming to me.

But when I did the coach training? Wow. Did I turn up my listening ability? Yes, I did. I really learned that listening is so much more than listening to perhaps just the words, or perhaps the surface. That actually, it's really listening beyond the words. It's listening to the whole body. It's listening to the energy. It's listening to intuition. It's being really present for our client. It's getting ourselves out of the way. It's getting our own internal chatter and potential ideas—suspending all of that. And at the same time, being aware of it too, because there might be some important information that is coming in.

When we're listening to another, we might be noticing what's going on in our own body and perhaps can offer that up. Because I truly believe we are energetic bodies that are transferring energy, information between each other. So that's going even deeper. So I guess I've answered your question in a way, Katie, by just sharing my own experience of what listening was to me before I did coach training. Recognising it was a skill of mine, but actually to do the training could deepen that even more—to become an even greater superpower, so to speak, in the ways that we can support others to create the transformation they seek.

But going back to what we potentially shared—or what we did share earlier, Katie—we've had some experiences this week that's really highlighted the power of deep listening. What came up for you, Katie, that I know you shared earlier, that can help the listeners?

Katie Mapondera: Yes. Well, no, I really appreciated you bringing in that point about what listening is from a coaching perspective. Because in our recent networking event, we were really trying on some of those skills that you named too, and using some of those skills to support the leader in the room, who very bravely and courageously brought forward their leadership case. Really tapping into each of the people in the room, tapping into their own wisdom in their own body, tapping into the particular intuitions that were coming up for them.

And it was really powerful to see how not only that sharing of what was coming up informed the leader at the front of the room, getting that support—it was also really impactful on that individual to have the space held for them to process. And I think that's something that's so valuable in listening: the holding of space for an individual to be able to tap into their own wisdom and their own insight.

There’s a wonderful book that I’m often recommending you know. Bring in those listening skills. I'll never forget. I was working with a team member. This was a couple of years ago. I had clearly touched a nerve as a leader. And my knee jerk reaction in the past would have been to respond verbally to whatever behaviour or reaction I was getting from the team member to try to convince. But having these coaching skills, what I knew to do was instead to listen, to get curious and to listen. And it was extraordinary. I was struck myself by how quickly that shifted the dynamic moving from answering, talking, convincing, responding to listening.

So I'm sure, Jeanine, you have your own stories from the trenches in terms of how listening has been impactful for you. And I'm curious what might be some of those stories that come to mind for you.

Jeanine Bailey: Yeah, well, really appreciate what you've been sharing, Katie, in terms of your personal story and bringing the power of listening to life and reinforcing that listening is so much more than listening to the words. It is listening to what's beyond the words, including the emotions. So not to respond, but to get curious about the emotions that come up. And you know what I'm taking away from your story is, it's supporting others to understand potentially their emotions, but also ourselves.

And I'm just thinking of a response that I made last night. I quickly responded to an emotion that was coming up for me—potentially not having enough rest—but immediately recognizing I had done that, and being able to pause, stop, slow down, and listen to what that emotion is telling me about my values, and how I want to show up, how I don't want to show up. But, more importantly, how I do want to show up, and what's the deeper meaning of that emotional response. So really listening to the wisdom of that emotion that showed up for me, which gave me lots of wisdom. Slow down, breathe, take a moment, come back to what it is that you know is your purpose and your highest values of connection and building relationships and growth, etc. etc.

So that’s something from my own personal experience. But I am thinking of a leader that I worked with this week. We were wrapping up the program—our executive coaching leadership program—and I had feedback from the business to provide him. And it was such an emotional session in that the feedback really supported him to recognise that he had gone on an incredible journey of slowing down, listening, really listening to himself, and recognizing how he wanted to show up as a leader, which was listening, building relationships, but listening to others and supporting them to empower themselves versus micromanaging or anything like that. He really wanted to be able to create that trusted space, to allow them to step up as leaders themselves.

Effectively, the feedback that he got from the top was sharing that he really has stepped into his authentic leadership self—who he really is, who he really is meant to be. And gosh, it was... I can't share the words exactly, but it was incredibly emotional for him to recognize that he is the leader that he aspired to be. That it’s no longer an aspiration—he’s stepping into that way of being that really appreciates and acknowledges and hears another person for who they really are.

Katie Mapondera: Well, I really love a couple of points that you've brought in there, Jeanine. The first one about listening to yourself. I think we, at times, can think of listening as purely an outwardly focused thing. As you pointed out, we generally think it's about the words that are being said by someone else. And it's so important what you brought in there—that there's this other dimension, which is listening to the self.

Listening to the self is part of a process of listening, and that is relevant in our conversations with our team members as leaders—to also be aware of the self. So important that you brought that point in there, because I think it's an often neglected but very important aspect. Because so often our intuitions, our way of showing up, is impacting the dynamics that we're having with others.

And then as well, the story of that leader that you've shared—it is highly impactful when a leader starts to bring in these skills of listening. So beautiful to hear just how that played out for your client.

Jeanine Bailey: Yeah, thank you, Katie. Appreciate your reflections and feedback. So it's potentially time to wrap up our session today. And so we have covered what deep listening is. And there's potentially so much more we can add. Checking in with you, Katie—what is it that you'd like our listeners to take away from what we've been talking about today?

Katie Mapondera: Hmm! Well, the biggest and most important takeaway is to explore what a deeper level of listening might be in their own lives. Knowing that there are these deeper dimensions and levels of listening—I mean, at Empower World, we teach the four levels of listening: how to listen not only at level one, level two, and level three, but to listen at level four. And you know we talk about how, as you pointed out, listening is not just about listening to the words spoken. It's about listening with your whole self. So, I hope, and I invite, our listeners to really try that on as a concept. And if they're curious about what that really means and what that looks like, we have coach training starting April 18th. So if we've piqued your curiosity and you'd like to learn how to listen at level four and listen in the way that we do as coaches, inviting you to consider signing up. You can click on the link below to see details about our upcoming training.

Jeanine Bailey: What would you like listeners to take away from this session? Yes, and again, I really appreciate your invitation to the listeners to try that deep listening on—even deeper than ever before. And I appreciate that the listeners out there will have various degrees of how deeply they listen. And if this is new to you, then potentially the invitation here is to not interrupt, to not try and find a solution for the person that's speaking to you. Suspend any judgment, any ideas that are coming up. Believe that the person in front of you—they are the leader of themselves. They do know potentially the answers to the questions that they bring in. To really provide space, not to rush in, not to finish off anyone's sentence. Allow that pause, allow that break of silence in between speaking to one another. And if you notice that the person in front of you is perhaps not looking at you when they're speaking or when they're thinking, just recognize that potentially they're doing some further reflection. Wait—wait till they engage with you again before you might say anything. And potentially listen to what your body might be saying, what emotions are coming up for you, what intuition might be starting to kick in as you listen to another. But again, just refraining from rushing in and sharing your perspective when someone is really wanting to pour out their heart or their mind, or whatever's on the top of their mind. So that’s our invitation: to start having a look at how you can deepen your listening even more, even more.

So, listeners, thank you for joining us today. And of course, we always love to hear feedback and your ideas about what we could bring to our podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Please do leave any feedback in the links below, and we hope you can join us very soon for our next podcast. Thank you for listening. And thank you, Katie, for your time today—really appreciate it.

Katie Mapondera: Thank you.

Jeanine Bailey: Thank you. Thank you.

Katie Mapondera: Thank you, Jeanine.