Co-founders of Empower World
Jeanine Bailey: Hello and welcome, listeners, to the next episode of the Empower World Coaching and Leadership Podcast. And finally, I am in the UK with Marie. We're in separate locations, but we are in the same country, which is amazing. So welcome, listeners! Welcome, Marie, lovely to see you.
Marie Quigley: Yeah. Great to have you in the UK, Jeanine. Yes, we haven't met yet, but hopefully, we will soon be able to give each other a proper hug.
Jeanine Bailey: Yes.
Marie Quigley: You're settling in?
Jeanine Bailey: Yes, there's a lot to do. There's a lot to just try and find a place to live, really.
Marie Quigley: Little thing.
Jeanine Bailey: Yeah.
Jeanine Bailey: But all of our stuff is arriving on a ship, I think, in the next few days, and unfortunately, it's not going to be with us. I just need a few books and a few warmer clothes, really.
Marie Quigley: Oh yes, oh yes. Welcome to the UK.
Jeanine Bailey: It certainly has been wet and a little bit cold. But again, sorry, say that?
Marie Quigley: I was going to say, we may not have met each other, but we've certainly been doing a lot of work behind the scenes to prepare for our upcoming coach training and all the other programs that we deliver—supervision, mentoring—all of the wonderful things we do together. So we might not have seen each other, but we're certainly doing a lot of work.
Jeanine Bailey: We are, we are. And I look forward to that hug. So, we were talking earlier about what we might discuss in this particular podcast episode, reflecting on what some of our mentoring students have been sharing, and what has been coming up for them as challenges. We both mentor a lot of coaches to support them in becoming credentialed or renewing or upgrading their credential. And one of the things you shared, Marie, which resonated with what I've been hearing, is the stories coaches can make up, whether they are in training or have finished training, about the rules of what they can and can't do. It's amazing, isn't it, how much they hold on to, and perhaps don't listen to, that could really set them free in their coaching practice. The rules they make up potentially get in the way. So that’s something we wanted to share in this episode.
Marie Quigley: Yeah, absolutely. A lot of times I will hear coaches say, "Well, I have to do it like this because this is the model I learned," or "This is the structure I need to practice," or "I must do a coaching session for an hour," or "I must stay with a client until they get what they want." So apart from models and structures and tick boxes, there's also a lot of beliefs about what they think they should be doing with a client. And it's often about the doing part rather than the being part, which is a big shift in a coach's thinking when they start to consider, "Who am I being with my client?" rather than, "What am I doing?"
Jeanine Bailey: It is a big shift, as you say, Marie, to really come into ourselves as coaches so we can be present with ourselves and with our clients. In that state of being present, just listening to what the client is bringing in, and trusting that process helps us as coaches to let go of those rules, to come out of our heads and really embody the core competencies of coaching. Many coaches see the competencies as a checklist of what they should and shouldn’t do. That’s what it can seem like on the surface, but those competencies are really designed to support free, open, creative, flowing conversations versus thinking, "What do I need to ask? What’s the rule?" If we truly understand those competencies, we can actually become freer. So, as you say, Marie, there are lots of different rules that coaches make up, especially when they've finished their coach training.
Marie Quigley: Yeah, I was just thinking about how we learn as well. We talk about the four levels of learning in our training. An example is when we learn to drive a car, and when we’re learning something new, it feels uncomfortable, especially as adults. So, we focus on the right way to do things. That’s not a bad thing because we’re learning a new skill, a new practice. We want to be proficient at driving or learning whatever we’re learning. The information is new, and we’re a bit clunky. We practice it and practice it, and then we suddenly get better. Finally, we’re doing it in a way that feels natural and organic. We’re driving from A to B, and sometimes we don’t even know how we got there. We know that happens in any learning environment, and as adults, it can be uncomfortable to learn something new. We also may have beliefs that there’s always a right and wrong way to do things. The thing about coaching is it’s an art and a science. There’s that dance, that creativity that comes into it. Yes, there are structures, models, processes, and philosophies that are useful to learn, but when we’re training coaches, we say, "We’ll share things with you, but we want you to test them out. See what works for you. There’s no cookie-cutter approach." But learning the initial stages is really important.
Jeanine Bailey: It so is, isn’t it? And to add to that, many new coaches tend to overcomplicate things. They think it’s trickier than it is. Yes, there are many elements to understand about coaching, but the actual process of coaching is potentially much simpler than many coaches believe it to be. Some coaches think they need to come up with fancy, complicated questions or be ahead of the game. But really, it’s much simpler than that. Coaching is about asking a question, listening to what the client shares, and listening deeply beyond just the words—listening for somatics, emotions, key words, and behavioral strategies. Reflecting back what we’ve heard allows clients to hear their thoughts, ideas, and strategies from a different perspective. It creates a sort of detachment when they hear their words said in a succinct way, highlighting what might be important in terms of what they've shared. Then, following up with a simple question like, “Say more about that,” or “How does that land for you?” helps them go deeper. The questions don’t need to be clever or complicated.
Marie Quigley: Yeah, and often the questions arise from what the client says. You can’t pre-prepare the questions. If you're really paying attention and are curious, you’ll hear something from the client that formulates a question within you that comes out of your mouth without much thinking. I’m thinking about a mentoring call I did yesterday. The coach was really good at asking questions, but they were missing a lot of information that was in the system of their partnership. They were so focused on facilitating growth and learning that they missed important shifts in energy or changes in tone. They could have said, "I noticed this shift in energy, or I hear your voice change. What’s happening for you?" Sometimes I tell coaches who are good at asking questions, “Stop asking questions and start paying attention.” Reflecting back what we notice is so empowering for the client.
Jeanine Bailey: It’s so true, Marie. We say that communication is not just the words—it’s the energy, physiology, breath, tone, pace, and volume. Reflecting those things back to the client helps them start to understand their unconscious thinking, habits, or ways of being in the world. Reflecting subtle shifts in the client’s physiology or energy can create deep awareness. For example, if I notice a client looking up at the ceiling, I might reflect back, “I noticed your eyes flick up. What came up for you just now?” That kind of questioning allows the client to reflect even deeper, which always translates into more meaning.
Marie Quigley: Yes, and often you'll hear coaches say, “I learned in my training that I need to ask powerful questions, so I need a list of powerful questions.” But powerful questions aren’t just about having a list; it’s about letting the question arise from what the client is saying or how they’re being. Trusting the process and letting go of that myth—that you need 20 powerful questions—can be liberating.
Jeanine Bailey: Yes, and the reflections and simple questions that follow those reflections can be very powerful.
Marie Quigley: Absolutely.
Jeanine Bailey: That’s one way new coaches overcomplicate things, thinking they need clever questions, but really, it's about following the client and allowing the questions to develop naturally—simple, short, and allowing the client to reflect on their own words. Sorry, Marie, you were about to say something?
Marie Quigley: I was just thinking about the number of models a coach can learn during their training. Sometimes they learn ten different models, sometimes they focus on one. Then they come out thinking, “I have to use this model in every session, and I’m a bad coach if I don’t complete it perfectly.” I’m putting “perfectly” in inverted commas for our listeners because there’s no such thing as perfection in coaching. There’s always another way to do something, but that belief that you need to complete a structure or follow a model exactly as taught can get in the way. I think, as you and I both believe, the competencies are much more flexible than any structured model. You can dance with the core competencies throughout the coaching conversation. It’s about being at ease with the process and allowing it to unfold. When I let go of models, I sit back and, as John Leary-Joyce describes it, I embrace the “fertile void” between myself and the client and allow whatever emerges to emerge. Because of my training, I have the structure of the competencies in the back of my mind, but the most important thing is what’s happening with the client.
Jeanine Bailey: Yes, beautifully said. Embracing that void is powerful. I’ve noticed that when I step into that space of not knowing, it opens up so much potential. Getting curious and embodying the competencies deeply allows whatever needs to emerge to do so. I was mentoring a group of students at a college recently, and we were reading about fifteen tools and techniques for coaches. One of the things emphasized was that while these tools can be powerful, it’s about listening to your intuition as to whether something might be useful for your client, and asking for permission to use it. But while using that tool or process, we still need to embody the core competencies—letting go of a rigid structure and flowing with it, being curious about what’s happening for the client as they engage with the process. Letting go of that linear structure allows us to support our clients in creating awareness and moving forward, without needing to complete every step of the process. It’s always about tapping into both our intuition and the client’s intuition.
Marie Quigley: Yes, I’m thinking of a new mentee I’m working with. She shared that when she first saw the core competencies, she felt overwhelmed. In her training, they hadn’t focused on the ICF competencies, but she wanted to align with the ICF to expand her career opportunities. When we started applying the competencies in her coaching, she had a lightbulb moment. She realized that while the competencies can seem overwhelming on paper, in practice, they are much more fluid. She saw that ticking boxes isn’t what the competencies are about. They are about developing our skillset and personal development—about how we meet and dance with another person. Once she realized this, it was refreshing for her, and she saw that she was already doing it, but had she focused on trying to “tick the boxes,” her experience might have been very different.
Jeanine Bailey Yes, it’s about “doing” versus “being.”
Marie Quigley: Exactly.
Jeanine Bailey: Being in those competencies and supporting our clients in their self-exploration and discovery. So, we encourage coaches to learn different structures and processes but also to be present, listen to their intuition, and trust the moment. It’s about creating a powerful coaching session where you’re in the moment versus in your head, thinking, “What’s the next question?”
Marie Quigley: Exactly. One of the things we say, particularly after completing level-one training, is, “You’ve learned the structure. Now, we want you to break the rules and experiment.” That’s a great philosophy to have as a coach—test things out. What works for one coach may not work for another. We don’t want cookie-cutter coaches. You are unique, and your clients are drawn to you because of who you are. Once you honor and embrace yourself fully, you can be yourself in the coaching practice. And when needed, you can bring in tools that might be appropriate for the client, with their permission, of course.
Jeanine Bailey: Yes, that’s great advice for coaches. Really check in with yourself and challenge the beliefs that may be holding you back from stepping into your power as a coach. We always encourage continuous learning, mentoring, and supervision because, as we know, we never get to a point where we know it all. There’s always something new to learn, both for ourselves and in support of others. It's part of our core need to continuously develop, expand, and grow. So, coaches, we trust that you’ve found value in today’s podcast, and we encourage you to test and challenge yourself to see if you’re making up any rules that are holding you back from being your most powerful self. Marie, what additional advice would you give to coaches on this journey of mastery?
Marie Quigley: Be willing to test and, if necessary, fail, and then learn from it. Listen to your work from a place of love but also with an objective mind. What works with one client may not work with another. So, appreciate who you are and your own self-development, and bring that wisdom into your coaching practice—not necessarily as advice, but as embodied wisdom. Remember, you’re a step ahead of the client because you’ve done the training and work on yourself. Especially in our program, where coaches are doing the self-work during training, you already have that wisdom. So, experiment with your clients, with their permission, to see what works and continuously develop your practice.
Jeanine Bailey: Wonderful words of wisdom, Marie. It’s true that if we’re not squirming, we’re not learning. It can be uncomfortable, but coming from a place of love and compassion for ourselves ensures we don’t fall into a hole. Instead, we learn and move forward more powerfully. One of the most powerful ways to grow is through feedback—from ourselves, from others, and from our clients. It’s about recognizing what’s working well and where the stretch is.
Marie Quigley: Yes, I appreciate you saying that, Jeanine. A coach recently said to me, "I don’t know if I’m doing well because, after my training, I haven’t had any feedback on my work." That’s something I encourage all coaches to do—get feedback. Let someone, who may be a step ahead of you, listen in on your work—someone who knows the competencies well enough to give you effective feedback in partnership with you. There’s always room for growth, no matter where you are on your journey of mastery. So, if you're feeling a bit lost or uncertain about whether you're doing a good job, record your sessions and get a mentor to support your development.
Jeanine BaileyÂ
Wonderful, Marie. Listeners, thank you for tuning in to our podcast. We really appreciate your feedback and suggestions. We are always open to hearing what you'd like to hear more of. We trust that you’ll join us for the next episode. Thank you for listening!
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