Dee Hutchinson


Jeanine: Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, wherever you are in the world. I'm Jeanine Bailey from Empower world and I am here today with my brilliant guest Dee Hutchinson, who has been one of our guests before, but I'm delighted that she has come back to support us with our podcast. Marie is not with me today. Hopefully she'll be back soon… but in the meantime, Dee, I'm in Melbourne and you're in Bangkok. So welcome.

Dee: Thank you very much. Delighted to be back.

Jeanine: Fantastic, Dee. And for our listeners who perhaps haven't met you before… whether it be through our circles or online somehow some way, I'd love you to introduce yourself to our audience.

Dee: Sure. I'm Dee Hutchison. Empower World Alumni from when I lived in Qatar. Originally from Ireland and currently based everywhere. Living a nomadic life. I have a Business Coaching online business. I specialize in helping people create online courses so that they can generate a second income, if at all possible. But my background is in coaching; life coaching with entrepreneurs. And my business has been running for just over two years now and thankfully going well.

Jeanine: Fantastic Dee. And again I'm super delighted that you've come back on our podcast and you did our training quite a few years ago now, back in Doha.

Dee: Six years ago probably.

Jeanine: Gosh that's gone so quick! You left Doha a few years back and It's been wonderful to see your journey online as you have really taken off. You've not gone back to what you know; You're breaking new grounds, going out on your own. But at the same time supporting people, which I know is a great strength of yours, to support others to live their dreams. So, again, really happy that you're with us. And today we caught up earlier as we're looking to do some work together in Doha hopefully soon. And those details to come out! For today's podcast, there were many things that we could have done- but what we have chosen to talk about today is coaches or leaders who are wanting to- or they've become a coach (maybe it's something else they've trained in)- and they're wanting to move into another type of role, but perhaps there's something holding them back from getting that second income, or letting go completely and going out on their own. So we thought it might be a useful topic to look at how you, Dee, support people to create that confidence and move in to that place of where they want to go. Whether it's staying full time in their role and doing something else, or maybe letting go of their full time role and stepping into what they want to do full time.

Dee: Yes. And I spend a lot of time working with expats, and of course my favorite people are coaches and I have invested interest in as many coaches being as successful as they possibly can… but I think we all know that the coaching industry is becoming more and more saturated. There are so many coaches around and it makes it harder for people to generate a sustainable income from a coaching practice. And it can take time, you know, it takes time to become known and trusted and be in a place where you can charge the big bucks! Certainly I started out offering everything for free for a really long time in order to get my name out there so that I could eventually charge. And I think one of the biggest challenges coaches have is creating a sustainable income from it so that they can do what they love. I see too many coaches fail because they go out on their own too early and they haven't considered how much time it takes to actually generate that income. And eventually they get tired and frustrated and they question their abilities, when actually it has nothing to do with how good they are; it's just the natural cycle that it takes to get known to be able to create that income. I think coaches do such admirable work and it's needed, and so it's very important to me that there are services around helping coaches create incomes before they have to rely on that coaching income solely, if you know what I mean. I was just saying earlier that the number one question I get asked by expats in general is “should I leave my job and start my business?” and my answer is always “no! why would you put yourself under that amount of stress and pressure, when you should really be starting your business when you're still employed?”. We all make the worst decisions when we're stressed about money and, you know, you can never make great decisions about your business when you stressed about money. So the longer you maintain an income of some sort while you're building your business, you'll make better decisions and it will be a more enjoyable process too.

Jeanine: Yes, fantastic Dee. Fantastic advice for coaches. So those coaches that you're aware of that come to you in that frame of mind of not having that confidence to stay, to stick at it, to put in the work… what is it that you would say to them, or what is it that you would recommend for them to do to be able to continue, build up their passion, build up their experience and skills… apart from, of course, working with someone like yourself? What would you say?

Dee: Well I suppose it depends whether they have an income already or not. Or they already have jumped ship. And for those that have jumped ship I think clarity around how long it takes can ease the burden. Because often coaches who are super stressed  may be only be two or three months into their journey and they're starting to panic because they're not making what they thought they would make. Or they're putting out their Facebook ads and are hearing nothing and starting doubt their ability. When in practice, it probably takes about twelve months to really start to create some sustainability and consistency in your income. And that means showing up every single day. Whilst you're not hearing anything you still need to show up and post and be there. And often knowing that it's not that you're doing anything wrong, it's just that people are more cautious about how they choose coaches nowadays, they take their time. They could be watching you, stalking you, for months before they decide to buy your services. And you're not always aware of that. But you still need to show up. So I think there's an element of understanding more about how businesses work and what is necessary…the kind of work we are putting in and how long it will take to get a return. And for those that are still employed I encourage them to stay employed and to build the foundations of the business that they will love. Most of the coaches that are still in work but want to coach full time are in jobs that they don't find fulfilling. Often they're worried about jumping ship because their monthly salary is still attractive even in a job they don't like, and they worry that if they leave they won't be able to maintain the financial security that they have. But this is where they are in a win-win position. You start working on your coaching business while you're employed, you start coaching people; you start getting the money in and you build your business while still employed. And only leave when there's a consistency in your income, so there's not a risk to be taken at points. That's the most sensible way to approach it. Unless of course he blows his money in the bank, or a rich partner or whatever… then do whatever you want! But most of us aren't in that position.

Jeanine: Yeah. Well it takes me back to my beginning of my coaching journey where I was working and when I realized that I wanted to really do coaching. When I realized what it was all about and that it connected with my values and purpose, I just thought “wow I'm going to quit my job and just do this and focus on this and put all my energy into this because I know this is me. This is who I am and this is what I'm meant to do”. And that was in the evening. And then I remember the next day thinking “oh maybe that was a bit too hasty”. However, “what I will do, is I will go from five days to three or four days’ work full time and I will also tell my manager that this is what I want to do and I will even just say to him: is there an opportunity to do this in the business that I'm in?” and I did that. So I asked if I could go three or four days, I think it was three days. And then I said to him “This is what I'm doing. This is what I'm passionate about. Is there an opportunity to do this in our business?”. And to my surprise he said “yes”. And now, I thought it was going to probably take 6 months, 12 months, before I would get anything in place in the organization. But actually, literally, I would say about three months. I was working with a client because our business was providing services to corporates in communications. But I was literally working four days a week with a client doing coaching. So it was amazing! And then when the contract finally finished with the client, my manager came to me and he said “look, Jeanine, we haven't got any other coaching roles at the moment with our organization. Do you want to come back to your own role that you used to do?”. He said “you've got a job there” and I just said “Oh…”. So, again, it took me probably around three months before I started to build that same sort of income again.  So I think part of it is that intention setting and giving yourself time, as you say, to build your experience, your credibility, create awareness about what you do- to then go on to what it is that you want to do. And setting your intention.

Dee: Definitely. I think people underestimate… because it's more like trust, your customers need to know you, they need to like you, they need to trust you before they buy from you. And there’s different activities that you have to do to get someone to know you and then to trust you… and that takes time. And I think possibly a couple of years ago when the coaching industry wasn't so big it was easier and you could do it quicker. But now because there are so many coaches in all kinds of niches, you're trying to shout louder than all the other coaches. And you can be noticed by being yourself and being authentic all those great things. But it just takes a bit of time to do. And you can do that whilst employed or working part time and dedicate your time to that and the results of that will show. It just takes a little bit more time than it used to.

Jeanine: Yeah. And Dee, I Know that you're someone that is very considered and you do your homework and you're out there you're experimenting and seeing what works. So you’re out there doing your research, making things happen. You're not sitting back, you put in that time and effort. And so you've created this course, an online training program. So it's a program to support coaches, but more than coaches… anybody that wants to start an online business to supplement their income, which could turn into something full time as well.

Dee: Absolutely.

Jeanine: So I know you're finishing up with, or you're close to finishing up… or maybe you have finished putting it all together and certainly we'll be sharing more about that soon. But is there anything that you would like to share with the listeners about that program or anything that you share in that program that will support those listeners who are sort of on that fence, so to speak.

Dee: The background to this: when I started my own coaching two or three years ago I decided that I would do it all online, because I wanted to be able to travel and freedom is my number one value. So, I was very clear that whatever coaching I did needed to be able to let me be wherever I wanted. And you need to think about the scale. So my first coaching program, which is called ‘Detox’, was a 30-day online program. It was hosted in a Facebook group, it was cheap and cheerful. I didn't know what I was doing, I designed it on the fly in the first month and I'm just running the 15th group at the moment of ‘Detox’. But interestingly what happened with that program, I attracted a lot of either entrepreneurs or ‘wannabe’ entrepreneurs. and earlier this year in January, some of my Detox-ers were saying “would you just teach us how you designed your online program?”. Which is not anything… I never intended to go into online course creation or teaching course creation, because I didn't consider myself an expert in it. But I have a background in learning and development so I understood how to put together a learning experience that would get people where they wanted. And one of the things I've learned through the past two years is: you do what your customers ask you to do. If you give them what they want, you will be successful. So at the start of the year created a program called ‘The Six Figure Online Course Accelerator’ which teaches people how to create their own online courses with the goal of creating a six figure income. And that has been a real eye opener for me, because everybody has something to teach. People challenge me going “I have nothing that I could teach” and within minutes we have got hundreds of things! And knowledge is power and knowledge can be monetized, particularly when there's a demand for something that you do. I have French storyteller who now uses her storytelling ability to help businesses tell their story. I have a young mother of a one-year-old who didn't like her job, but she loves cooking, and now she has a cookery course and a cookery club. And there are all sorts of people who can create this secondary income, which ultimately can become the primary income, teaching something that you do well. And it's generally not a big thing, it's not a huge course, but it solves a problem that somebody else has. Like for the cookery course that my client has, her niche are busy moms, just like her, in full time jobs with young kids, who want to be cook nutritious meals for the family and not be stressed out about it. And she's doing super well at that. I have another lady in the Caribbean whose course is around menopause, and how to work in the corporate world and have menopause and not lose your mind! And we have a lot of demand for that too! So when you look at it, generally there are things that people would have told you're really good at, and people will comment and go “you're really good at that”. And you probably don't even think you are, but there is a course in that, which you can generate income from really easily. And I love that technology can allow people financial freedom and more choices in how they work and where they work and what they earn. and I think the more control we have when the economy is crazy, now there's another recession apparently coming and we have less and less control over our income particularly when we're unemployed or reliant on others… I love that the online course creation industry is booming and people are starting to tap into it.

Jeanine: Yeah. It's a great way, as you say, to provide that freedom to travel, to be where you want to be and focus on what you love.

Dee:  Absolutely and it's great for coaches because, this is something that you could start quite easily in the area of which you work. Whether you're a life coach or business coach or confidence coach, you can create your mini online courses. Which is one way of people getting to know you and like you and trust you, because you have this program that you can have a totally self-service or automated. So even if you're a busy mom, or you're in a full time job and you don't have a whole lot of time, this can be running in the background. Getting you out and getting your name out there but also starting to bring in an income. So it ticks a lot of boxes for people.

Jeanine: Yeah, I love it. And over the years I've looked at many of these sorts of courses to help with marketing and building funnels and all this sort of thing. And for me it's like “Oh! I don't have time to look at that all. I'm not drawn to it”. So perhaps I might be if I wasn't so much in the business of coaching and that's where my passion is, so that's where most of my focus and attention goes to. So, you know, finding something that is easy to follow… because what I'm hearing, Dee is that you support people to identify where they can focus.

Dee: Yeah.

Jeanine: So I don't know if there's anything that you would ask the audience to think about that could potentially help them? And it important for people to find something that's easy to follow and how could you help people know where they should focus?

Dee:  Well there's a couple of ways of doing this. Generally I tell people to focus on their natural gifts. What is it that people have said to you over and over again that you're really good at, or those they would love to be able to do, or that you make look easy? That would always point to something that is just naturally of ease to you and that will always be something that you can teach. The trick here is that it’s often the things that come naturally to us, we don't consider them to be special at all, for the reason that it's easy for us to do. So firstly, make a list of everything or every ability that somebody has commented on… particularly if it’s commented on frequently. That's a great place to start for a potential add course or program. And the second what are the topics that you love to talk about, or activities that you do- that when you're doing the kind of forget to eat and poop basically! That you get so engrossed in is that you're so involved in it, and again generally this is stuff you tend to find that you fall into easily. These are also areas that you will no doubt be good at and interested in. And you can create something out of that also. I mean ultimately, you want to be creating something that you love doing. I mean why bother teaching something or creating a program that you don't enjoy. So it makes sense to first look to something that you're particularly good at. And I would have other people that will also have a particular area of expertise. So whilst it may not be their number one passion, it is something that they are extremely good at or noted for in their area of work or even, potentially, a hobby! And so those would be the areas that I would say you could start first.

Jeanine:  Beautiful and something that comes to mind is getting feedback. Making a conscious effort to go out there and ask for feedback about “What is it that I bring to the world? What do you notice that I bring to the world?”

Dee: Absolutely, I mean even when I started with ‘six figure course’… before I started this, I wrote to every expat I knew and said “I'm about to do this because I think expats really needs help with their financial security”. Because most expats are in short term roles, particularly in the Middle East there's a lot of flux: politically, economically. But I wasn't sure whether it was the right idea. And I wrote to them saying “What do you think?” And they came back saying “Yes! We want it, when it is ready?” So you can gauge the interest quite quickly. And then I went back to them and I said “well if there's one thing that you love me to teach you about this would that be?” And with those answers I created my curriculum. Because a lot of the answers were 1) “I have no idea what my course Idea would be”. 2) “I think I have an idea for a course that the technology scares me. I don't think I could do technology”. 3) “I’m in a full time job and I'm worried that I won't have the time or I'll procrastinate and this is something that I'll start and not finish”. And with their responses, you know, these are all objections natural objections people would have of doing anything, I just used all of that to create the course curriculum. So you can have your potential customers do all the work for you.

Jeanine:  Yes.

Dee: And it's also the best way to create your courses, because you're giving customers exactly what they want.

Jeanine: Yeah, great piece of advice. So Dee, I'm aware we've gone… gosh we've spoken for quite a few minutes. It feels like it just went like that. So thank you so much for spending time with me today. Before we before we wrap up is there anything else that you'd like to impart and actually if you could let people know where they can find you that would be great to.

Dee: Sure. I think if you have an idea if something has popped up into your head if you're listening for a speak take that as a sign that you have a course in you and trust yourself to take the next step in and in going and talking to people about your idea write the feedback. And if you have any questions or you'd like to test your course idea on me, I love hearing course ideas and you can always find me at or at Dee Hutchison on linked In and Facebook.

Jeanine: Beautiful. Thank you Dee.

Dee: Very welcome.

Jeanine: Yes. Thank you listeners and hopefully we'll be out there with some news soon about what Dee’s presenting and yeah looking forward to getting involved. So thank you Dee!

Dee: Not at all. Thanks for having me.

Jeanine: Pleasure. Thanks for listening.


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